You know the time when you walked into McD or KFC, and you order a combo meal which costs you RM7.90… you’ll end up paying RM8.30. Ya’ know, you have to pay 5% gomen service tax. Ok right? Cause we are all used to it.
Now, imagine you walked into Kedai Kopi What-Fatt-What-Fatt, you order a “Char Kuey Teow” which usually costs RM4, and you end up paying RM4.20? How about that? Do you know it may be happening?
Now, a reader told me today that reading all my ‘serious’ entries made her ‘fall asleep’, she prefers my entries regarding my views on life. Fair enough, but before you fall asleep… imagine all the new blouse, new pants, new bras, new panties that you’re gonna buy may all be subject to tax? Would you like to know more?
Ladies and genitalmen (term stolen from Wingz), the name of the game is Goods and Services Tax (“GST”). Just a brief introduction, the gomen announced some time in Sept 2004 (during the 2005 Budget announcement), that GST will be implemented in this country. The supposed implementation date was 1 Jan 2007.
Why it is not implemented yet? Apa jadi? Well, the gomen announced some time in early 2006 that implementation of GST will be postponed. What’s the reason for this act of generosity? No one knows for sure. And for the sake of being a responsible blogger, I shall not speculate.
Now… the keyword there is ‘postponed’… the gomen didn’t say GST will be abolished. So there will be a time when you and I may need to pay tax for our ‘chee cheong fun’, roti canai, bak kut teh, condoms, vibrators, etc. The million dollar question is of course …. When?
Tax experts have dubbed GST as an ‘efficient tax collection’ tool. Ya’ know, all those fellas who don’t pay every year, those fellas who make money from those ‘cannot-see-light’ activities, all have to pay tax when GST is implemented. I mean… all have to eat roti canai and bak kut teh right? And all have to buy condoms also right?
Jokes aside… what does GST means? GST is a tax levied on ALL goods and services (except those exempted by law). Therefore, to me, GST means more money out of my pocket because every time I spend, I need to pay tax. GST means all those vultures out there who are looking for opportunities to increase prices of their goods will do so at a flash, because they have to pay tax when they buy their raw material. They may be able to able to claim back their ‘input tax’ but that’s too technical to be discussed here. In a nut shell, GST means poorer you and me, unless you are freaking rich already till you don’t care if you have to pay tax when you buy condoms.
Back to the million dollar question… when will GST be implemented? A story was once told about a guy who will treat his gf extra nice when he wanted sex. Basically, before he wanna screw his gf, he has to treat her nicely.
Last year, during the 2007 budget announcement, gomen announced that corporate income tax rate will be reduced from 28% to 27% and subsequently to 26%. Last month, gomen announced that RPGT will be abolished. Can you see any screwing coming? Well… maybe, maybe not.
On a related note, reducing corporate income tax means companies will have more money from tax savings and they are “supposed” to use those savings to pay better salary/bonus to their employees so that the employees can survive GST, if GST is implemented. Well, do you think companies will do that? Hmmm… employers are a different species from the guy that I mentioned earlier. That guy will treat his gf nicely before he screws… as for employers… they just screw us. Period.
On another related note, did you feel pissed when gomen increased toll charges? Every Tom, Dick and Harry and Mary, Jean and Jane were pissed, some even went and protests and shout vote out the gomen la, vote this vote that la. Judging by this, what do you think will happen when all of us have to pay tax for our roti canai, bak kut teh, chapatti and condoms? Who will you vote?
Therefore… perhaps, just perhaps, the gomen will not implement GST until election is over. And since gomen said election will not happen till 2008 or 2009, then I guess we are quite safe la. But… just but… if there is a snap election… get your ass ready for a royal screwing.
70 comments:
needless to say the kampung people will be the first to complain. the extra 20 cents you pay for your roti or mee indon might not mean that much to some people but to the kampung it means alot. and i thought the parties will shine the citizens shoes before election haha
lol. =)
Great speculation. Oddly enough, i haven't eaten roti canai for a LONG LONG time.....
No falling asleep here, gotta stay vigilant for the royal screwing. Maybe i need to invest in steel underwear....hm....
hmm! I dont think so the kampung ppl will kena at all.. tolong sendiri punya org marh... deng.... perhaps only the bandar ppl kena..
also, have u not heard bout the trade free thingy that US has offered to the Asian countries? I heard , I heard ONLY larh fr someone who always watch CNN... that US will offer trade free zone to MAS and other Asian countries IF the G abolishes the 7% thingy, whereby every citizen chould be treated equally and fairly... (=_=)" .. what do you think, huh... will the G still choose to show her loving to her own race, or tax free for everyone? Meaning imported cars cheap dee... yay!
I think this will result in bursting the population of this country. Know why? Because everyone don't want pay tax so they don't use condom anymore lo. LOLZ
I work part time as a waiter and I can tell you the GST is a genius idea since we get paid more due to it. After all, we're giving service to the customers.
Then again, I do work in Australia. Getting paid about 11 AUD an hour is considered pretty low. But that's not considering tips as well and the cost of living here is pretty alright for that pay. Especially for a poor uni student.
hmmm.. die lor.. when i get back to kl, i'll be damn poor... not mentionin that i gotta work for the gov fer 4 years... and i wont know which kampung they will send this city gurl to.. >.<
GST, another wizard scheme by our Garblement to tax the already overtaxed normal average Malaysian. Legs wide open and bend over ppl, Malaysians are going to get screwed over again as usual. It doesn't surprise me one bit.
am d reader who almost fall asleep reading the *****...but besides the point that the tax which might at any time be implemented is sth in plan like u say...maybe the msian 'tidak apa attitude' cant b bothered abt it thing is...what can we do even if it were to be implemented anytime now? protest? nah uh unlikely to happen....strike? ah....human rights in msia how's that?
GST...hmmmmmmmmm....effective tax collection...i think its true....but then it must be COMPLEMENTED with a SUPER LOW INCOME TAX RATE....coz its fair that if u consume more u pay more and not if u earn more u pay more.......
But any sort of tax wont be well received by the PUBLIC...sigh only when will the GOMEN be more matured....sigh.......
p/s which BLONDIE said serious stuff makes her sleep? the reason ppl read zewt is becoz it gives a humurous and sarcastic view on the serious stuff....ppl who wan to read bout life should go to kennysia.com....i am sure he will welcome you with his 2 coconuts...
liddat ah? zewt!!hurry go stock up on cartons of condoms now then!! faster go! faster!
the other day i stopped at a rest stop near the highway, bought a packet of banana crisp thingy....kena charged 5% sevice charge leh. eh, the small gerai also started charging tax already! i know i kena tipu, the 5% safely go inside their own pocket but what lah....i want to eat my banana crisp.
GST itself also brings out one message: the more you spend on goods and services, the more tax you will kena pay. So you will think twice, especially the expensive items, when you want to buy it. It will not only hurts consumer, it might hurt the market as well. That is the big fuss in Hong Kong.
And for anyone who like to do shopping in singapore, take heed of this: GST in singapore will increase from current 5% to 7% on July 1, 2007.
u should keep up ur writing! fall asleep? no way!! hehe
hmm..i got a new term for GST...my surname's song..so
GIVE SONG TAX!!! er..gimme all the tax lar not tax me! =P hehehh
haiyo..now u put it that way..gona get screwd soon..sei lor..!!
It's a chu tao ping country. Sure screwed in the end... almost guaranteed! The good news is... we may not be in this world during the time when they are really srewed.
TTL - you're right, those fellas in the kampung will scream. of cos, those fellas selling roti canai, BKT and chapatti are fighting for their food to be exampted. as for shinning ppl's shoes...that's why GST's implementation is probably after election lor.
Jazzi - haha! well, maybe you should buy now... if you buy later, may need to pay tax!
Calvin's wife - no lor, GST implementation will be across the board. dont tell me they will check your IC to see whether you're kampung fella or city fella when you buy condoms right?
as for US FTA, yeah, i heard the same, which led to many delays. I think gomen will not let that go. that's the trump card in getting votes you know.
jun - hahaha, you may be right!
kamigoroshi - hello there, welcome! anyway, i think you should not compare malaysia with most of other countries... especially australia. the welfare of the ppl is very much protected in aussie... in msia... errr... let's just pass.
Acrelaine - dont worry, recent news states you can do your house-men-ship in singapore. much much better i think.
V - hahaha... legs wide open indeed. but like what Jazzi said... maybe we should get a good underwear for some protection.
anonymous but i know who you are - so you didnt fall asleep eh? you have got a point, there's nothing we can do. i didnt say we can do something about it. just letting people know the imminent impact.
economist - that reader is the anonymous above you lor. yeah, the gomen should reduce individual tax before they implement GST. but instead, they reduced corporate tax... this is going to be another tax the poor and save the rich scheme.
me - wah... which highway is that? well, technically speaking, restaurant with an annual turnover of more than RM150,000 should be charging service tax already... so that gerai making a lot of money lor. i will think about the condoms.
mich - HK has abandoned their GST plan due to political pressure. and you are right, GST will cause much higher inflation. regular person on the street will be badly effected.
huei - wahhh... u think you gomen ah? not dying yet la... wait for a year or 2 more maybe... or perhaps earlier... who knows?
purple mushroom - you sure? perhaps you may live to see that day... who knows?
I wonder if roti canai with GST added would taste any different. For sure, my fried rice wouldn't taste the same without the added MSG...
Sorry, feeling silly this morning. If we are to get screwed, we will get screwed. No avoiding it, bro, no matter how much bitching we do. True, ya? (Or maybe not...)
I've heard about this GST talk and I think it's another one of those reflex comments that our dear government is famous for. Much like a fart that you thought was going to be silent but came out sounding. There's no way of escaping it except for, 'Who farted?!'
I've lived through the implementation of GST in Australia and it was a confusing time for a lot of businesses not just the consumers. Consumers were saved from the, 'why ah?' or 'hah?' when they go and pay for an item because all the prices were already GST inclusive (ie. the price on your Big Mac at McDs on the menu is what you pay when they ring it up. Unlike the US or Msia where it's done at the point of sale.) Businesses however, were stuck with more paperwork and administration.
I think the reason for the postponement was due to the fact that they did not understand or were not prepared for the magnitude of change that will occur just from administration itself and we're not even talking about educating the public yet. They cannot even manage the current income tax system efficiently and they want to bite off more than they can chew?
Imagine this, if I were to impose GST on my products, I would have to tell the tax office that I am collecting tax on their behalf which will later be remitted to them. Knowing how unscrupulous a lot of traders out there are, how are consumers going to know if the hike they're paying actually is GST? Who is going to check that chicken rice stall beside the longkang to see if his GST collections were accurate? Do you think he has an accountant or book keeper? Remember, it is a self assessment policy like the income tax system.
We all know that maintenance and administration is not exactly the goverment's strong suit. A small minority are helpful and efficient but that's it. Are government officials going to do spot checks on businesses to see if their price hike is justified? Seeing that Malaysia is corruption-free,I'm sure when the officers go on their rounds, they'll find a lot of traders not registered for GST and bring them to justice.
GST is very real but I just cannot see how they can implement it at this point in time. I'd hate to see it being implemented and they go, 'Tiiiiiuuuuuuuuu lor! So serious one ah? Cannot tahan la! Scrap! Scrap!'.
I don't know anything about GST... I just pay only. Couldn't be bothered!
to tell you the truth..i work in this field..yes..indirect tax..the tax where it hurts you whether you drive a proton or a bentley..and yes what you say is so true..mabbe i shud also attempt an entry also haha..
Zewt: I think they are screwing now. But not completely screwed yet. Maybe our children will kena completely scewed. Faster... send your kids overseas!
There is validity in both arguments.
It's true, perhaps the government is planning to implement the GST, therefore increasing the "feel good" factor for corporation to an even greater high, liked they were hooked on crack or something.
Pak Lah's government seems to pay more attention to getting better deals for corporations. How else do you explain him going to meet VW to talk on Proton's behalf?
Now that he's taking care of the corporations, the main question, for me at least, is will the corporations share their newly found fortune with all their employees, or will all of it simply go to the heads...?
your readers are super intellectual their comments are super long...... it's already very chia lat to pay 5% gov text n 10% service tax whenever i go to kim gary, now for other places else, omg, i nid to shit....
Everybody seems to want to take a cut in our money! :(
But you r right Zewt, i dont think this GST thing will be implemented till election is over.. typical freaking politics.. :( Be nice now when they need our support and stab us with a keris after we're of no use.. :(
Gone lah, even char koay teow also got tax! Haha! Might as well fry our own char koay teows.
moral of the story is.. let's vote for parti pembangkang and we'll bangkang the gaomen 99!!
zewty,
point to note ya, anonymous aint no blondie, and like i said freedom of speech and expression...am sure that's why zewt blogged rite? self-expression; it's what people feel and think, everyone has got different opinion and views rite "economists"...if not why blog?
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yup anonyymous is right...but zewt said you said the serious stuff he wrote made u sleepy n u prefer stuff on life....so i just recommended kennysia.com....
this reduction in corp tax is surely a scam la....reduce the income tax 1st...then i can consider GST fair...
but flaming lambo is right...as it is our delivery system alredi so INEFFICIENT..how can we handle another type of collection? imagine the chaos that will happen...
*rabbit reaches out paw to mommy rabbit*
After reading zewt's post, rabbit has decided to dig more pocket money from mommy, just in case i'll need to pay GST for my carrots in the future. Eeeee!
Kenny Mah - hey bro, you've got a point. Not exactly telling people that we should do something about the imminent screwing. Just wanna create some level of awareness. Hope I am doing the right thing.
FlamingLambo - in this country, if you allow those vultures to factor in GST into the pricing of their goods... it's like giving a gun to robbers remove the guards from a bank... you know what i mean?
As for the reason why it was delayed... well, friends in the industry did informed me of the reasons but I think I will reserve those information for the time being. basically, you're right, we are just not ready.
as for our administration managing the entire GST regime... it will be interested to see how it will be done. indeed, many traders will try to get around it... or.... raised prices of their goods and say "tax mah... that's why so expensive lor"... and us malaysians with our famous 'tidak apa' attitude will just pay.
dangerous variable - wahhh... very rich ah you... if you dont mind... then ok lor.
someone who is constantly craving - looks like we are in the same industry, but i specialised in corporate tax. you should... it will be enlightening.
purple mushroom - completedly screwed sounds very scary... u know... poor backside.
flaming lambo - by the way, will delete one of your comment since it's a repeated one.
Aput - yeah, we all do noticed that gomen is concentrating on the goodies for the corporates rather than the regular rakyat. as for the chance of employers sharing their dough with us... well... what do you think? anyway, the gomen should reduce individual income tax to balance things out, as mentioned by economist.
Andrew Ho - i am sure you can also conjure up some intellectual comments as i did read some nice sarcasm in your blog. shit? maybe next time shit also you have to pay tax... not joking.
Russ - money talks... bullshit walks man. they cant simply stab us with keris... they have keep us alive to pay tax, pay toll and pay more tax.
Josette - but you cant make your own condoms.
april - hahahahahaha... that's the spirit eh? you registered already or not?
Anonymous but not blondie - yes, freedom of expression... our right. economist... did you read this?
Economist - hahaha... kennysia nice meh? ok... i shall reserve my right. :P
as much as we fear the imminent chaos... GST is very real, i can tell you that. GST may be here before you know it.
rabbit - tell the rabbit head... that carrot is a staple food for rabbit... and should be exempted from GST. then mah tuck lor...
*no eye see*
So, you're gonna move to Ozzie Land to get away from this? :D
not that tax is the most wonderful thing here in Oz, but at least when the price on the menu says $10.95, you just pay that amount and not ++. all inclusive. you don't see it, it's there, but you sorta feel better about paying it because it's already included into your meal amount.
I didn't realize that GST would extend to the gerai on the street! Shows how blur I am about all this stuff... My roti canai will definitely taste different then.
4bucks for char koaey teow become 4.20????
I already complained even if it's 3bucks in penang!!!
angel - haha... well, who knows?
may - like i said in one of my reply to a reader here. in aussie, we can trust the the operator will be honest enough to factor only the tax portion into the price. here in malaysia... roti canai RM1.00 .... tax 5%... suddenly the roti canai will cost RM1.20... know what i mean?
rinnah - yes, they will. actually, any gerai on the street with an annual turnover of RM150k and above should have been charging service tax already. with the full implementation of GST... then the coverage will be much much much wider.
baby sa - oh... if char kuey teow is RM3... then it will become RM3.15 lor... but i am sure those tau-keh in malaysia will charge RM3.20 for convenient sake.
well..lets see if i can give a more even view on this issue..stay tune..i m beginning to c some bashing around here..but as we all knw..this money generating machine aka GST is the PM's baby..so its just a matter b4 it is born..
the fella claims that ur article was boring, and i just want to tell you which is not true.
nite.
Hmm..the blue condom...comes handy to cover up bruised kkc from the night before 'bang like no tomorrow' romp with g/f and now have to do the 'husbandly duty' to the wife.
LOL
now register one meh? eh.. i dunno anything wor. i nv vote b4 also in my life. :P who to support ar.. parti pembangkang also got alot..
zewt...wat happen man?
suddenly your comment section become some MINI MSIA TODAY liao...
eh i recommend kennysia.com coz anonymous non blondie say she wants to read things on personal life...then i would say that blog is OK for that...if not go HANNAH T's blog lor wahahahah
GST = Gomen's Sengkeng Thinking (at 5% is too low)
RPGT = Rigging (the) People, (the) Gomen Thought (Yoda says... the Empire strikes b-...again and again and again...)
Incidentally, the gomen has been trying to increase its public service delivery, so, they may just congratulate themselves later this year by being able to move the projected election forward a year or two. Oh, what a screwing indeed....
Gosh, I didn't know the topic of GST could spawn into such diverse sub-topics. Nevertheless, it's very interesting.
For the sake of not straying out of topic, I'll add a quick comment to those quoted above.
Since the handover of Malaya by the British 50 years ago, the plan to govern Malaysia was not a good one. They came up with parties that segregated races (UMNO, MCA & MIC)through which each race had a voice via an elected representative. Over time, instead of concentrating on progressing the nation and taking care of the welfare of its MALAYSIANS, the respective parties have come up with agendas (either public or private) for the preservation of their respective race. With this, the focus has shifted from the PEOPLE to PEOPLE OF MY OWN RACE.
So now we have the ruling party fighting on 2 fronts. Instead of progressing the country and doing what is good and right for the citizens as a whole, it has to consider whether the decisions would benefit their race more than others because if not, their members or people within the party would object. Now let me ask you this. How can Malaysia compete with other countries like Singapore, Thailand or even Vietnam when their focus is only on developing the country and not a particular race AND the country? I fail to see how you can do it unless...well, it might be too sensitive to type. The very foundation on which our government is built on is unstable from the start. 50 years ago. Unless somebody has the balls to say that it was all fcuked from the start, it's going to be a tough job for the government.
Hmmm..lotsa history and political science lessons here...
But yeah i do agree with romsam on the indian influences.
Oh well, i've always considered meself a citizen of the world and i love peace and harmony.
Oo...and by the way, Australia and NZ are on the eastern longitudes lying on the south pacific ocean but were majorly made up of westerners comprising many descendents and english convicts. Nevertheless, the Aussies prospered to a great extent.
Nothing wrong with migrating (hijrah in arabic). It's what human being has been doing all along since the early days. The only thing is the feelings of belonging and how u r treated by the country's govt policies. Why pening2 kan kepala thinking about those pelik2 policies...am i that very happy with their policies?....hell no!!!....coz i know that bumi Allah is luas and life is short.
And to my fellow chinese frens who r too sick to be malaysians, hey, taiwanese fled china , but do the china govt wanna approve the taiwan independence state? U definitely know the answer. Thai govt made policies that all the chinese descendent there registered themselves a Thai name. While i am not 100% supporting our govt policies, I also think ahead coz i know that there are a lot of possibilities for just anyone venturing around the world. The risks are on us. For eg. many Indian billionaires reside in london and new york. But regardless of wherever they decide to move, they did not forget their root. So, why shudnt we?
Why worry too much on what will happen to malaysia. Better worry about ourselves 1st. After all, we all live under the same sun.
someone who is constantly craving - looks like you're right... more bashing came up!
kelvin - hahaha... that person was just kidding i think. anyway, thanks for visiting.
Cocka Doodle - hahahahaha... so i guess you have a lot of blue condoms eh?
april - if you're 21, then you should register... just go to a post office. just choose any parti pembangkan lor hahaha...
economist - i am thoroughly surprised myself. wahh... u read hannah T's blog ah?????
cirnelle - ironically... for all the screwing that we've got... we still vote in the same screwer.
flaminglambo - very enlightening indeed. ya, me and my friends did had a discussion before... china can move up so fast in the economy chain simply becos they dont have to worry about whose interest they have to safeguard. everybody works hard for it, and everybody prosper. same case with india and all those countries you mentioned. malaysia... oh well...
manal - another enlightening piece. well, the future outside this country may not be so clear for those who wish to migrate, but they see the bright side of it enough to make such a bold move. and becos they are worry about themselves, they are willing to make such bold move. and like you said... still same sun :)
tim / yuking / fong / aston / romsam / cooloc / fargowin / vesewe / ruyom / san - wow guys and gals. thank you for such long comments. i have to say i agree with some of you and disagree with some. sorry i have to delete some of your comments... wouldn't branded as an 'irresponsible' blogger... :)
hello zewt, thanks leaving a mark in my blog :)
waakakaka....very refreshing & informative blog you've got here.
keep it going man..our country need more bloggers like you
Are all these long posts spam comments? Coz i am also getting them in my blog.
Zewt, msians are very rich wat... compare the prices of cars to the average income, and average house. Easily 2-3 times the gdp per capita (est $11,000). And see the number of luxury cars on the road. So what is another few percent of tax??
The gmen is very poor (after the spending of the previous adminstn), have to scrap the bottom of the barrel for funds (see how zealous the customs dept is, going after all businesses for unclaimed taxes and duties..).
Sorry folks for bringing this up, but singapore paying 7% ah... what to do...still have to pay...
erm Zewt ah, i think those ppl are a bunch of political nonos from a forum or sumwhere, satu kali come in and kasi komen... (=_=)"
fuhh, looks scary uh...
for those who is thinking to migrate or anything sort of like that, please pick the country which you think the GST or VAT is low before making your decision. The list is here:
Tax Rates and GST/VAT around the world
Australia=10, Singapore=5%, Thailand=7%, Philipines=12%, India=12.5%, Sweden=25%, UK=17.5%...
Aiyo, zewt, this is painful. It is painful to defend gomen by showing that some of the corporate tax out there in the world... is lower than malaysia's one. Corporate and Individual Income Tax around the world
For corporate: Austria=25%, China=25%, Denmark=22%, Germany=25%, Hong Kong=17.5%, Ireland=12.5% (I guess now i know why they call Ireland as Irish Tiger liao, if i got money, i would want to invest there also...), Singapore=18-20%, Taiwan=25%...
lovegoddess - you're welcome. and welcome to my blog. you sure the country needs more ppl like me? the country branded us as liars.
purple mushroom - i think so too.
kat - that's the stupid thing about malaysian. earn 6000 or 600 a month... either one, will buy a car. well, wat i really fear at GST implementation is the traders will use this chance to pump up their prices.
Big Rice - but check out singapore's national service, traffic, public transport, development AND currency strength... compare that to malaysia.
Calvin's wife - spam la mereka.
mich - next time i need any stats, i know who i should turn to. you're truly the stats queen. and yeah... msia corporate and individual tax so damn high la...
aiyoyo, zewt, look at the number carefully again, it is the other way round :P Malaysia's individual income tax is low and corporate tax is trying to beat Singapore (20%) and HongKong (17.5%).
The thing is why singapore is doing so well even though their corporate and individual income tax low is because they have a lot of trade activities there, look at their GDP. Morever, they strive for efficiency and no corruption (so keyword is NO corruption). Mys is wasting a lot of money on inefficiency/red tape and corruption :( Otherwise, we are quite a good pro-capitalism country.
ya, i know abt the turnover thing. damn sure they don't make that much and even if they do, they sure are not going to declare it....so betul betul i got tipu-ed lah. pssst...remember to watch out the expiry dates on the condom stuffs......nanti 'accident' pula. kakakaka.
mich - i dont think i consider our income tax as low. it's actually very high and the general perception is that... malaysia is a high tax regime country. yeah, cant agree more regarding the corruption index.
me - well, you have the right to ask for their service tax licence before you pay ... hehe...
Hi Zewt, this is my second time leaving a comment here...very informative entry on the GST!
I can't imagine paying GST for drinking Milo panas at Ah Beng coffee shop. I am gonna go so broke!
Yea, election is coming..and so does the 'royal srewing' as well. We'll see how it could get. Sigh.
jermayne - hello there. well... i think most food stuff will be exempted. but what i am trying to get at is the risk of those traders who will take this chance to hike up prices. after all, this is malaysia... know what i mean?
all these talks about the gomen reminded me of a post i read somewhere about The Farm...
http://www.kamkuey.com/?p=271
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