Monday, 3 December 2007

Yes, we do believe...

Warning: This entry may be thought provoking. But I am sure it’s worth it

Many would have known by now that my Mom is a very staunch Buddhist, while I am a Christian. One thing which irritates me and often caused arguments is when my Mom made passing comment to her friends about how Christians do not believe in ghosts. Her favourite phrase was… “Lei dei yat ding em sun yi dit yeh” which simply means… surely, you people don’t believe in such things.

Is that true?

A friend of mine shared a story with me many years ago. It’s something which happened to his sister, so it’s as real as it gets…

My friend’s sister, let’s call her Mary, was waiting for the school bus to arrive after school one day. It was getting very late and the bus seemed to be taking forever. There were 3 of them waiting for the school bus to come and out of boredom and curiosity, one of Mary’s friend suggested that they play a very interesting game. That game was called “Spirit of the coin”.

For those who are unaware, this is a game which involves players ‘inviting’ a spirit to come into a coin. This coin is placed on top of a piece of paper which may consist of numbers or colours or anything which resembles answers. This is because when the spirit enters the coin, the players can then ask questions and the coin will move to the ‘right’ answer on the paper.

Now, this game requires a very strict rule; that is all the players must place their finger on the coin. This is confusing part because when the coin moves, no one knows if it is truly a spirit present or one of the player pushing the coin. But anyway, when players want to end the game, players are to ‘invite’ the spirit to leave the coin before players can release their fingers from the coin.

Back to the story…

Mary and her friends invited the spirit into the coin and they had fun ‘asking’ the spirits. Their game was interrupted when the school bus came and how did the game ended? All of them just release the fingers from the coin and went home.

That night, Mary had difficulty sleeping. She felt that there is something in the room with her. Then she noticed there is a big moth in her room and when the moth rested on the wall, she felt as though there is something watching her. Mary asked her brother, i.e. my friend to help her get the moth away. My friend did that, he chased the moth away.

However, the moth somehow appeared in her room again, almost immediately. After a few rounds of chasing it away, my friends gave up and Mary managed to fall asleep.

This went on for a few days where Mary also fell sick. My friend, who is a Christian, sensed something amidst and decided to take Mary to see our pastor. This is what my friend told me…

~~ As soon as we entered the room, pastor got Mary to sit down, looked straight into her eyes and asked “What is your name?” Immediately after that, Mary started to tremble as though she was not herself. She then grabbed a pen on the table and wrote 4 names on a notebook. 4 different names ~~

Conversation followed between the 4 and pastor and they claimed to be a family of 4 who died at a road accident near Mary’s school. They were “invited” into the coin.

I would like to pause here to highlight that this is not very in line with Christian’s doctrine as Christians believe spirits of the dead will not be wandering around. I shall blog more about this in the very near future.

Anyway, my friend also shared a very defining moment with Mary. It was when she was still in the deliverance process (a.k.a exorcism process) and she couldn’t sleep one night. So my friend took Mary to the living room and let her lie on long sofa while my friend sat on the floor and sang some Gospel songs while playing his guitar, trying to sing Mary to sleep.

After a while, Mary seemed to have fallen asleep and when my friend was about to keep his guitar… Mary opened her eyes, put her hands on my friend’s shoulder and said…

“They are here”

I still remember the exact words of my friend when he told a few of us this… He said…”I have to look down to check if my balls were still there cause I felt as though they dropped off”.

The deliverance process took a very long time. I once heard a ‘self-confession’ from a former uni-mate that her deliverance took 2 years. Yes… 2 long years. This is the part where it is very different from other religion. There are instances where a talisman is given to the possessed and voila, the spirit gone. Am afraid, it doesn’t work that way in Christianity.

Mary was blessed as her deliverance was shorter than that, though still long. However, after her deliverance, something else happened, the story didn’t end there. But that is a story for another day.

So friends, Christians do believe in ghosts too, just that we call them evil spirits. The difference is that Christians are protected by the blood of Christ from these evil spirits and they have no right to touch us unless… unless God himself allows it. Why would God allows it? That is when we give Him a reason to allow it.

A bit deep? Yeah… but the point is… yes, we do believe… in evil spirits.

P/S: Those who wants more dosage of Christian deliverance can have a look at
this story.

42 comments:

ShadowFox said...

I would've thought that Exorcist and Omen series would've answered this question about whether Christians believed in ghosts or not.

I see it more as apathy towards other religions and their beliefs, and the lack of initiative to appreciate good English movies.

kyh said...

I personally encountered ghostly experiences before. Very very real and unbelievable. But I would not elaborate more on that. I'll let your imaginations run wild a bit. ;)

As for the coins thing, yes, I've seen some of my schoolmates playing it b4. I still remember during one time, my fren A and I went to see them play out of curiosity. And do note that the ones playing the coin game DO NOT even know our names. When they saw us approaching them, they asked A whether he had any question to ask (the spirit). Well, being 50:50 suspicious of the authenticity of this spirit thing, he asked the spirit to show his Chinese surname. Then the game began. They had one of their fingers on the coin each and the coin then started to move round and round the answer sheet filled with lots of Chinese characters. But then it stopped, not because it had found the answer, but because the answer was not there. My fren was surprised, true, his surname did not appear on that sheet. So they asked the spirit to WRITE it out. The coin then started to move in systematic motions, which appeared to be writing a Chinese character. And to our astonishment, the character that the spirit had written was his surname, 谭 ('tam' in cantonese)! So you said shocking or not?

In Buddhism, we believe there are good and evil spirits. Not all so-called spirits are evil. Those deeper interpretations I'll hv to leave for the masters to explain. Chinese believe that the spirits of their dead relatives will return after passing away for 7 days. My fren,after her grandma passed away for 7 days, most members of the family dreamed of their grandma telling them smth, all on the same night! Another fren who's now a Christian, told me that his aunt suddenly received a fon call from her mum, and coincidentally, that day was the 7th day after her mum passed away. So basically it's a fon call from the spirit world. His aunt described the sound from that other world in the fon call was a bit weird, and that her supposedly dead mum asked her not to worry and that she was fine 'there'.

This world is indeed filled with supernaturals, and it's up to u to believe. For me, I staunchly believe their existence becos I myself had intimate encounters b4. ;)

kyh said...

btw, to all those who consider this coin game as utterly superstitious rubbish, then let me ask u, wud u find this game thrilling and exciting if the spirit isn't there and it's u who're really moving the coin, not the spirit? It wud be damn boring, dull and bland! What fun and enjoyment will u get if it's just moving the coin round and round the sheet of paper like an idiot?! You're a psycho then if u find this REALLY FUN AND INTERESTING. =.=

It's becos of the force of spirit that moves the coin that keeps on luring ppl, esp the adventurous souls into playing this game over and over like addicts!

flaminglambo said...

Did she call her on a landline or mobile phone? Wonder what the call rates and reception are like or if one can phone a living friend in their version of 'Who wants to be a millionaire?

Anonymous said...

ouh no. im just about to go to sleep as im reading this. haha. thanks. now i have to sleep with the light on. so much of lighting up the candles few hours ago. huhu.

-lenny

myop101 said...

those who deal in occults would open doorways for the demonic forces to attack.

what mary encountered is not long dead spirits. they are demons in disguise, meant to torment mary because she opened a doorway in her life for them (as even demons disguise themselves as angels of light). i wonder what happened to her friends?

Ah-Bong said...

whoa dude, ur blog... ur posts... pretty thought provoking, but i love the one about u and ur dad. and look at all those awards! LMAO

anyway, it's really up to the person himself whether or not he wants to believe in evil spirits or ghost or what not. Buddhists believe there are ghosts and spirits, while i'm pretty sure the other religions do too. if a person choose not to believe, then u cannot make him believe either. then, i'd say he's damn brave a man.

true, scientifically, most scientist would say it's just the game of our minds. but heck, i'm just a small guy in this world, and yea, game of minds are too much for me to handle. besides, you know what they say about hospitals. LMAO.

anyway, kkep up the good job, would definitely drop by more to read all your posts. :P

gina said...

Yeah I guess. In fact, some of my friends who personally experienced evil spirits, were converted to Christ immediately they were healed. I think every religion has its way to deliverance. It depends whether you believe it or not.

Yes! My skin crawled too when I read the part of 4 names and they are here. Aiyoh.. gimme the creeps!!!

PurpLe~MuShRooM said...

No matter what my believes are, I trule believe in the existence of spirits & ghost.

It never crosses my mind that christians do not believe in ghost or spirits. Else, where did movies like Exorcist or Omen came from?

Hey Zewt, if you are interested, you can go to Kenny Ng's G-Files to read some of the true encounters from my family. I contributed to his blog.

Huei said...

ah well..every religion has different believes..and there's nothing wrong..i respect all

eh! dun let the story stop lidat la!! more details!!!

i remember my schoolmates used to love to play the sprirt of the coin "game"..but it always seem so fake lor..it's always the players who move the coin..u cover their eyes..n the answers goes all wrong! hahahah (not to disrespect any one/religion okie..just..maybe we were still young then)

may said...

thanks for sharing. I guess no matter what your religion, it's best not to disturb, provoke or invite what you do not know, regardless of whether you believe in it or not.

missironic said...

luckily i read tis entry in the morning..i hope when in the nite, today..i will forget all abt tis dy...lolz.

i dunno why..but i alwiz got sked of the word 'exorcism'. spooks me up! probably bcoz i once HEARD the sounds from the movie 'exorcist' and it FREAK THE HELL OUT OF ME! Read, i said HEARD not WATCH...bcoz i din watch the movie as i dun want to at all..but instead after putting my headset on, i still hear the sounds coming from the movie..Gosh! really nitemare man! lolz...

but anyway..u noe wat i tink? I think each religon has their own ghosts/evil spirits. and it all comes down to their followers whether to believe in ghosts/evil spirits or not...but i tink hor..watever it is...dun find uninviting trouble la..like playing the spirit of the coin..eeee~!!! i dun want oh! lolz..*runs and hides under the blanket*

"Joe" who is constantly craving said...

no blood, flying things or screaming?? sounds like a "peaceful" exorcism i must say..

Tine said...

I believe we should not play with things we have no comprehension of. I have never seen such things, as such I would say I do not believe in them. Still, I wouldn't test out my skeptism on something I know may turn out badly. No pissing on trees for me :p

I believe there's a Chinese saying "better to believe and not provoke, than to not believe and incur wrath". Can't really remember, it's something like that.

alan zed said...

spirit coin? old skool! must wait the spirit go home, then can end lor. if not, habis la. hehe.

l y n n w e i said...

^^
of course christians do believe evil spirits even the evil themselves recognize Jesus when Jesus was casting out demons.

but those evil spirit are not the same with spirits that died..they are just familiar spirits. becoz everyone that are died, their sprits are no longer on earth...

angel said...

I used to play this spirit of the coin thing... someone also told us that in 'return' for all the questions answered, they (the spirit) will take some blood from us thru the coin (cos we put our fingers there maa) -_-''' And the funny thing is, must be at least 2-3 ppl... why cannot 1 person, huh? And thank god each time the spirit was willing to "go home" on its own... *shivers*

Now, I dun think I dare to play lor...

Oops... this entry is not about the game hor...

Sharon said...

hmm, I know christians dont believe in chinese mediums. But when this thing happens, are christians allowed to seek help from taoist mediums? I believe it would be faster though, no offence.

ahjohn said...

I think everyone in general believe in spirits. That goes for Chirstians.

Generally, in Christian teachings, any personal relationship with God is between him/her and God. Yes, pastors etc can help to pray but in general they do not rebuke the spirit out of a person without his/her conscent.
It is as easy to say as if you want to go to Heaven, you need to repent yourself.

So why people allow spirits to dwell in them? Sensible speaking, nobody wants but our inner being of being unforgiving, rebelious, watching pornography etc that invite spirits into the body (which God calls it the Holy temple).

Does God allow Christians to speak to the spirit of death?
NO
read:-

http://dianedew.com/talkdead.htm

ahjohn said...

In reply to Sharon:-

1. Christian will never seek any god except for Jesus. (Matt 4:10)
2. What makes you think that toist etc can save a person faster than Chistian? Not to start a fight here, but to give a simple insight.

If I am not mistaken, the 8th month (hungry ghost month) as done by the chinese are to please the spirits of death (not to rebuke them) - with opera, food, burn offerings etc. There is no sign of attacking the spirits RATHER to have a peaceful way of telling "you dun disturb me, i dun disturb you".

In Christianity, we rebuke all kinds of evil spirit and have no intention to have peace talk.

This was written in the BIBLE when Jesus cast out Demons, the Pharisees said‘It is only by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons, that this fellow casts out the demons.’ 25Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to them, ‘Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? 27If I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your own exorcists* cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges.

* So, if there is any religion that can daringly cast out spirits, please tell me.

On deliverance. Why does spirit able to attack on anyone? This is because people invites the spirits unknowingly (read my previous post).

Anonymous said...

BASE ON A FACT told.

Try to go to GENTING HOTEL.
the fifth floor is close and all attached with the chinese yellow paper (hu) believe to take away spirits. The rooms on 5th floor are not made available to stay because it is 'reserved'.
On the 12th floor, the mediums are praying 24 hours every day throughout the history.

If medium cast out demons, why are they still praying?

Helen said...

Yes, Christians believe in Spirits and fallen angels. :-)

I'm intrigued by what my previous commentator said. Interesting. :-)

SWei said...

Gosh for one second, your story freaked me out. I have not much comment on this but yeah, I always think that Buddhist are the more superstitious type comapred to Christians.

Mind you, I'm a Buddhist myself but unfortunately, despite my whole family being super religious, I lead a very Christian-ish lifestyle due to influences from my friend. Hahah. But these stuff about spirits, it's just a state of mind I guess.

I'm a bit blur but I kind of heard from people at home saying stuff abt me being born unlucky. I encountered problem like your friend's sister a few times. I used to manage to see spirits, or so they say, when I was younger. and yeah, apparently, a spirit was haunting me beginning of this year when CNY was around the corner. short hair woman who wanted new clothes for cny or sth. lol.

oh well, this is what i think. spirits exist only when we believe their presence no matter what religion you believe in. agree with me? :)

zewt said...

ShadowFox - somehow, ppl will not be able to link such movies into realities. not that i am complaining though, cos i feel some of these movies do not reflect the real thing.

kyh - well said my friend. this game has been played for years and i heard ppl are still playing it. it is certainly a game for the adventurous, but are they ready for the 'real' adventure?

flaminglambo - huh?

anon aka lenny - saffron sunday right? haha... well, maybe keep the candles going?

myop101 - indeed... but not many will understand this doctrine.

Ah-Bong - hey!! welcome to AZAIG. well... nothing spectacular la... :) good choice for not going beyond what you cant handle. thanks for dropping by and hope to see you again.

gina - i heard of such stories too. but i am sure other religion has the same stories to tell too.

zewt said...

purple mushroom - yeah, i've been there before. that one really overdose... cannot sleep after reading la hahaha..

Huei - you sure you wanna listen to the ending of the stories? it can be quite offensive to other religion.

may - that is very true.

missironic - hahaha... night already... can sleep? anyway, you're right... better not invite them for anything at all.

constant craver joe - i was not told of that part... maybe there is... hehe.

Tine - hmmm... as a Christian, I must say you should know that there are evil spirits around. Even Jesus had to cast them out, right?

alan zed - pernah main? hehe.

zewt said...

l y n n w e i - that is very true, something which i will blog about.

angel - wahhh... good for u. any interesting stories to share?

Sharon - hmmm... well, it may not be the case as the ending of the above story tell. maybe i should blog about the ending.

ahjohn - man... u should really be a pastor. and thanks for explaining to Sharon. I will be blogging more about this in the next few entries.

Anon @ 5.01pm - very good point... very very good point... why are they still praying?

Helen - indeed... why are they still praying?

SWei - hahaha... u sound like me... very christianised due to friends influence. well, it's a good thing i must say :) as for whether i agree with u or not... half... :) oh, i think you should talk to your christians friend about this short hair woman.

Sunshine said...

omg how am i going to sleep tonight....

anthraxxxx said...

4 months before my brother died, he told me he saw one invisible man and woman is bothering him.

curryegg said...

You wrote this in a beautiful way..
Well, I am a buddist and I do believe in spirit..
About Mary.. I am wondering... how is she now?
Em... I used to play the coin games before but I think it's not work.. haha.. Luckily..
;D

missironic said...

zewt: yeap..i can sleep~!!!! bcoz i really forgotten abt ur story then! but u said some ppl ask u to continue ur story..hmm...before u start anyting..can put a disclaimer like how scary it will be? so tat i'll skip reading it? hahahaha...

anthraxxxx: oh, supporter din tell me tat..u juz told me someone came to him n asked him he rdy to go already or not...u noe i will freak out eh..tats y no tell me...:P

lingzie said...

okay...something strange happened here...because unless i'm this total blur sotong, i do distinctly remember leaving a comment about this entry yesterday morning... but its gone now.... zewt, did you see it?!

zewt said...

Sunshine - by closing your eyes? :P

anthraxxxx - that is freaky... too freaky.

curryegg - Mary has recovered by now. well, good that the game didnt work... at least nothing was invited in...

missironic - it's not that scary la.

lingzie - nope...hmmm... twillight zone here...

sharlydia said...

yeah now i remember...some loooong time ago when i was around 7-8 years old, i've tried this game in neighbor's house...but i felt scared of it after a while coz it really sounded real...but back then i wasnt a christian yet, so...

Now that i'm a christian, whenever i felt "not-right" especially when i'm travelling alone or when hubby is out of town, i'll just say a prayer for God's presence & His guardian angels to watch over me...then i'll be able to sleep tight...

jam said...

God should have trying to pass a message. Just like the movie 'ripping'.

Mcmercedez said...

Hi there Zewt,

Apology for the long absence.. Been very busy with work and wedding prep.. Hehe..

Well, in this kind of encounter, I could say every religions will have their own belief in ghost.. it just in different form i guess.. and for myself, I do believe that there are existence of the unseen around us because I did encountered it once myself.. I did not actually see the figure but I felt the presence by smell and hearing..

There are people who really do not believe in these stuff until they encounter it themselves. I always belief that if we (human) did not cross their path i.e. purposely look for them by inviting them or provoked them, they will not harm us.

God will always be around to protect us.

anthraxxxx said...

Yeah it was scary, maybe I'll blog about it next time :)

zewt said...

shalydia - me and your husband like to sing this song when things arent too normal.... in the name of Jesus.. in the name of Jesus, we have the victory! hehe

jam - didnt watch that. what message? :)

Mcmercedez - yup... God will always protect us...but at the same time, we must not take things too far.

anthraxxxx - i will be interested to read it.

missironic said...

ok, if its not scary, i'll read..lolz..

-Princess Shin- said...

Oh my goodness!!! I used to play that game! Haha.. We had to draw little circles and let the coin move around. Or was it a pencil? Ah.. I can't remember..

Chinese people! haha...

zewt said...

missironic - good good...

princess shin - no moth? :P

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