The other day, I saw the message “Must a person be a Christian in order to be good?” hanging by my former colleague’s chat window. It was after a brief inquiry that I found out that she was feeling rather frustrated as one of her friends rejected a guy because he was “not a good Christian boy”.
We then engaged on a mini debate which she later claimed to be an argument.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying a person has to be a Christian to be good. But I did make it clear to her that it is specifically stated in the bible that a believer should not yoke with a non-believer. Can someone please help me out on the book and verse?
On top of that, I did tell her that her friend doesn’t really need to look for a Christian if she wants a good lad. But my friend was very adamant that religion is the culprit of the ruined potential relationship. I told her that if she doesn’t respect the religion, at least respect her friend.
That was when she made this point…
She said she used to be a church goer and she knows Christianity well. In addition, she has also read about Quran and books about Buddhism. Then she said… “the bible was written yonks ago, humans have evolved and progress, why do we need to comply with all the rules”. This was a reply to my point that a Christian is specifically told in the bible not to yoke with a non-believer.
Again, don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that all Christians will follow this so called ‘rule’. In fact, I know many who don’t. And of course, there are many good people out there who aren’t Christian. No doubt about that. But to actually say that the bible was written ages ago and thus does not apply to our modern lifestyle was to me… absolutely absurd.
The bible; or any other religious books, does not go through re-editing according to time. Also, some instructions or life tips do not change in accordance to time. Just like how many have said that humping at a young age in this day and age, though common, doesn’t mean it is right.
I can't help but to rebut her by saying… “The bible said do not commit adultery. So since the bible was written yonks ago and humans have evolved and progress, I guess your husband doesn’t really need to follow those rules and thus, he can go screw around.”
That was when she said it’s no point arguing with me.
We are all like that isn’t it? We only accept things when it is convenient to us.
We then engaged on a mini debate which she later claimed to be an argument.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying a person has to be a Christian to be good. But I did make it clear to her that it is specifically stated in the bible that a believer should not yoke with a non-believer. Can someone please help me out on the book and verse?
On top of that, I did tell her that her friend doesn’t really need to look for a Christian if she wants a good lad. But my friend was very adamant that religion is the culprit of the ruined potential relationship. I told her that if she doesn’t respect the religion, at least respect her friend.
That was when she made this point…She said she used to be a church goer and she knows Christianity well. In addition, she has also read about Quran and books about Buddhism. Then she said… “the bible was written yonks ago, humans have evolved and progress, why do we need to comply with all the rules”. This was a reply to my point that a Christian is specifically told in the bible not to yoke with a non-believer.
Again, don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that all Christians will follow this so called ‘rule’. In fact, I know many who don’t. And of course, there are many good people out there who aren’t Christian. No doubt about that. But to actually say that the bible was written ages ago and thus does not apply to our modern lifestyle was to me… absolutely absurd.
The bible; or any other religious books, does not go through re-editing according to time. Also, some instructions or life tips do not change in accordance to time. Just like how many have said that humping at a young age in this day and age, though common, doesn’t mean it is right.
I can't help but to rebut her by saying… “The bible said do not commit adultery. So since the bible was written yonks ago and humans have evolved and progress, I guess your husband doesn’t really need to follow those rules and thus, he can go screw around.”That was when she said it’s no point arguing with me.
We are all like that isn’t it? We only accept things when it is convenient to us.
45 comments:
Fuah ur last reply to her was -_-" you must be really pissed off eh?
To each his/her own beliefs. If the friend let go of a really good guy, then it's her loss, regardless of what the religious books say.
2 Corinthians 6:14 is the evrse to look up.
It's a misconception that Christians are good people. :-)
Christians are just people who realized they are NO good, and know the penalty has been paid..
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.... (Rom 3:23)
...and the wages of sins is death, but he gift of god is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.(Rom 6:23)
zewt, one question...did the Bible say why a believer should not yoke with a non-believer?
Leah hit the nail on the head with the verse! :)
However, event though the Bible doesn't undergo 'editing', we still have to exercise common sense while interpreting.
Otherwise, incest would be encouraged (Lot slept with his two daughters) and polygamy too (Jacob not only married two sisters, he had children by their maidservants too)...right?
the bible is one of the only books that can stand the test of time, alongside ben graham's "the intelligent investor".haha.
I used to be a christian as well but i realised that most christians only "accept teachings which are convinient to them". Some are the kindest, most loyal followers of Jesus but most of whom i have encountered are the biggest hypocrites i have met.
Special mention for hardcore ones who spend most of their time in church, only to commit adultery on the days they dont go to church.
There you have it, sinners all gathered together, teaching and preaching the word of God.
The bible has been grossly misrepresented by unquestionable pastors, envangelists, and members of the church.
This is not how it was suppose to be. I think if you arent prepared to commit yourself to a religion, you shouldnt have one. You can always let your conscience guide you.
A religion is not a fad or a stamp on your social status. If you claim to be a christian, you should represent it justly. Always ask yourself what would Jesus do?
Isn't religon means to an end and not the end in itself? Means to lead a good life, be kind, generous, tolerant etc.
although as your evil twin, i cannot agree with anything you said there, so lets go:
lets leave out all our prejudices and believes and take a logical view on what is religion and the necessity of having religion(s)
A religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
now who wrote the bible?
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/debates/bible.html
Says here
The work of many hands
The answer to 'Who wrote the Bible?' turns out to be complex. For a start, the Bible isn't a single book, but contains 66 separate books which were collected over something like 1,200 years. Christians and Jews have usually been careful to say that the scriptures weren't delivered from a passing cloud, but were, they believe, written, edited and compiled by human beings under the inspiration of God. Even so, what Robert Beckford discovers on his biblical road trip is much more complex than anything he learned in Sunday school.
Therefore, your argument that the bible was NOT EDITED holds no water, because over the first 1,200 years (give or take 300 years), it HAS to edited before.
Also, this site
http://www.allabouttruth.org/who-wrote-the-bible.htm
it says that
The Bible is God’s letter to humanity collected into 66 books written by 40 divinely inspired writers. These writers come from all walks of life (i.e., kings to fishermen) and spans over a period of 1,500 years or more. These claims may seem dramatic (or unrealistic to some), but a careful and honest study of the biblical scriptures will show them to be true.
Who Wrote the Bible - Evidence of Divine Inspiration
“Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.
In all fairness, lets just assume that God really did speak through all these people and delivered this message.
But let me ask you this, if you were to relay a message to 50 people in the room, and ask these 50 people to relay the same message to another 50 people. At the end of the day, if you compile all these 250 (50 x 50) people, do you think you would get exactly the same message? Odds are, most of the message would not be the same, either the original message was misrepresented, or misheard or misunderstood.
Now given that the Bible has evolved over so many centuries over so many people, do you think that it has not been evolved to fit the times? Do you not think that it has not been edited to suit those in power at that time?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version
this site says
The Authorised King James Version is an English translation of the Christian Bible begun in 1604 and first published in 1611 by the Church of England. The Great Bible was the first "authorised version" issued by the Church of England in the reign of King Henry VIII.[2] In
So what do you know, the bible has been translated/edited/condensed many times over the years to what we have now! And indeed, the human elements have been incorporated into the book. Can we still safely say that the holy book only contains the teaching of God?
Now if we all can remember, as the highest law in the country, the Church (all versions, Christianity, Islamic, Hindu, etc) used to control countries, in fact, in some countries it still does.
Ever wondered the real reason that God says do not commit adultery? During the very old days when death rates were high due to war, famine and decease, it was difficult to have an offspring to carry your family blood line. You would not want to have your wife bearing someone else’s child when you went to war right? Now what do you think would prevent them from doing this? Laws were hard to enforce, but using religion could really scare the hell out of you right?
So the kings, the churches and the priest use certain passages, paragraphs and lines from the holy bible, manipulate them and make them divine law.
Now if you had that kind of power at that time, wouldn’t you make up such laws to control your subjects? I mean human laws can be debated, but you don’t debate divine laws and argue with God right?
Despite what we want to believe, humans are just a few DNAs away from monkeys. As an animal, our sole purpose in this world is to survive and procreate. That is the basic instinct of any living creature in this world. So it our nature to spread our seeds to ensure our offsprings survive us. I’m not justifying adultery, but its just human nature to spread its seeds as much as possible to ensure their bloodline survives. Did you know Genghis Khan has 16million male descendants living today, according to DNA research - meaning he must have fathered hundreds, or possibly thousands, of children. ?
If you were Genghis, would you not pass a similar law that adultery is prohibited so that the mothers can only bear your children and make sure they that they grow up?
Religion has been put in place to restrict what we were born to do and it still continues to control our lives in some way shape or form.
Are you
Against any form of birth control
Against abortion of any kind
Homophobic
Against an open relationship where couples can change partners
Having pre marital sex
Trying drugs or other types of intoxication like alcohol
If u were to go through all the religious books, you would find evidence to suggest that there is something against any of the above activities. So are we really going to be guided by some book written 1500 years ago?
Has Christianity evolved? You betcha
We have gay priest even though the Bible strictly prohibits homosexual relations
Do Christians use birth control?
Do Christians eat meat on Friday?
Do Christians always go to church?
Do Christians have pre-marital sex?
And we are debating that “thou shalt not yoke with a non-Christian?”
Even that is debatable. Just because one reads the bible and go to church and go bible study does not make you a Christian. So why cant 2 person be together even if one of them is a Christian or not? so to continue to exert control over more people on your teachings, how do you ensure your subjects grow? well, you make up a law that only Christians can yoke (what kind of term is that) with another Christian. 2 benefits, 1 it converts a non-christian to be a christian and 2 it ensures that that persons love for the religion/god is always bigger than her human love and will continue to do your bidding. does that make sense?
I say unleash the shackles of religion and live life as you want, so long as it does not hurt anyone n break the law.
If u need to observe any divine law, these 10 are direct and to the point, wonder why it is not popular any more?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_commandments
"Love thy neighbour"....but don't get caught! ;)
Muahahahahahah!!
regarding what cocka doodle said - aha..very cute!
anyway, it's really pointless to argue becoz no matter how much we can present the truth, they will sure have something to counter, and i really believe that with God, it is very personal. You just need to experience God to know how real He is. Once u've experience His love, His grace and mercy, no one can talk you out of it...
ah, the ancient debate...
so WHAT do we actually take from the Bible, and what do we not??
and is the BIble the absolute truth from GOD?
well, the Bible also said that women shouldn't serve in church, and you definitely don't see that happening now.
there are a lot of things that the BIble say not to do, but one must take into account why it was written that way in the Bible at that time.
i think it's a bit impractical to tell all brethrens we can only be with Christians, because the BIble says so.
the simple question of : What would Jesus do?
Not everyone is perfect. We are imperfect because we couldn't resist temptation sometimes. See got 2 youth church leader I know, both made girls pregnant and then ran away from their responsibility.
Just do what is right. God will be watching you from above.
Faith, like love, can't be explained... Human explanations may be right or wrong. "Blessed are those who don't see and yet believe."
A person's belief system is very important because belief, if powerful enough, can override common sense.
Most of us know right from wrong but if one has a screwed up belief system, it can justify one's apparent wrong-doing as the correct thing to do. For eg. Suicide bombers killing innocent children and people that they don't even know. I'm sure they know it's wrong but their belief overrides their conscience.
Sometimes, I think we have to take a step back and think about what we're reading or hearing. I believe in the Good Book but I do not agree with everything that's being said or written.
My view of religion is that it promotes love, peace and understanding, basically making this world a better place. I am sure when the Bible was edited, the essence of the book is just that and not a them 'against us mentality'.
On the comment about Christians v non-Christians, let's say when 2 people (one a Christian and another a free thinker) dies and goes into that white light. They find out that Christianity is the one and only religion. The Christian has lived a righteous life. He/She goes to church and studies the Bible every week. On the other hand, the non-Christian, being a surgeon, has also lived a righteous life and helped save hundreds of lives regardless of their religion. When they're standing at the Pearly Gates, is God going to send the non-Christian to Hell?
taken from wikeanswers:-
I think to answer your question it would help to understand what an unequal yoke is. II Corinthians 6:14 tells us to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers.
In the Bible days when people would plow their fields they would use an equal yoke. Which simply meant they would use two oxen, or two cows, two mules, etc... It was an equal yoke so the animals would pull a straight line. If you put an ox and a mule together it would be crooked.
Christians are not to yoke together with unbelievers. That doesn't mean that we are supposed to shut everyone out of our life that isn't a Christian, but it means that those closest to us should be of the same faith that we are.
Wow! She's hard core. Is she the type that always thinks that she's right, or she just happens to be frustrated at that time to say something like that?
But then, there are a lot of people like that, irregardless what kind of religion they are in. No one's perfect. Only God is. The most we can do is try to mirror him and ask for His guidance to do so.
The Bible contains ...
-the mind of God,
-the state of man,
-the way of salvation,
-the doom of sinners,
-the happiness of believers,
-light to direct you,
-food to support you,
-comfort to cheer you.
You should ...
-read it to be wise,
-believe it to be safe,
-practice it to be holy.
It should ...
-fill the memory,
-rule the heart,
-guide the feet.
Have a Blessed Day, Zewt.
i believe that everyone has the choice to choose whatever religion they want to follow, and one should not judge another based on their religion!
i respect all religions n their believes, and i respect all those who comply to the 'rules', but i don't respect those who use religion as an excuse, or use religion to 'attack' others, like u know..how things has been going on in this cunt-tree
Religion is the root of all evil!
after reading this blog entry makes me think of the last conversation i had with my best friend.
she fall in love with a guy whose religion is not christian. although she knows that the relationship is not going to work as the bf's family told their son clearly that he must not convert to christian eventhough both of them get marry.
i still remember the sorrow in her eyes when she told me this, "the more i stay in this relationship, i feel that i am stepping away from God's grace".. then she start crying :(
damn true..everyone wants to take in their interpretation only..
i think fundamentals and principles shud remain although humans have evolved..after 2000 years, good and bad are still very clear things..cant b muddled up..although what defines good or bad is different
Everyone has their own requirement when choosing their life partner. Religion is one of the common requirement. Other requirement that are often imposed will be education, wealth, race/dialect and location. In choosing life partner, we are all trying to choose someone that are more compatible to us and required less changes in our life. There is no point to choose someone whom we can't accept their way of life and end up arguing day and night right?
We all want a certain "standard" which we considered able to suit our need or preference. In fact not only on relationships but on every other things as well such as house/car/clothes/etc we are buying, education for ourselves/childrens, living environment, etc.
and lastly there is a saying..
One Man's Meat, Another Man's Poison (Whats works for us may not work for others.)
Woah. That was a super long response by Johnson Tee.
The Bible is the only book that has stood the test of time. What we commonly use as a measure of time, B.C. - stands for Before Christ. It is the long standing best seller of all time.
66 authors you (Johnson Tee) said? I beg to differ and I hope you agree to disagree. These 'authors' were instructed by God on what to pen. Some of them, (e.g. Moses and the Book of Genesis)were writing about events that had happened long before their time. Some wrote of things yet to come even. Yet they all knew what to write. God was using them as His vessels, to write down His Good News for the generations to come.
It's definitely true that there are heaps of really good, nice and kind hearted non christians outside. In fact, I do have a lot of really good mates who are non christians and yet they're heaps better than the 'christians' as some 'christians' are way too hypocritical, dramatic, judgemental and trying way too hard 'to be holy' on the surface. It's kinda annoying. And of cuz, there're the really nice and genuine christians as well.
Most christians would prefer to have a christian partner as they both love God, they share the same thought about christianity and they can serve in church together. And yes, it is indeed better to have a christian partner who can serve God together with.
Thanks for your comments on my comments and I’ll reply here
The Bible is the only book that has stood the test of time. – What do you mean by that? I’m sure there are many other Arabic, Buddhist and Hinduism scriptures that are thousands of year older than the bible which contents are still relevant and being practiced today. So how can you say it is the ONLY book that has stood the test of time?
What we commonly use as a measure of time, B.C. - stands for Before Christ. It is the long standing best seller of all time. – No arguments on that
It is actually 66 books by 40 inspired authors. I got it from a source which I provided the link. I agree that some events were written long before it happened, if that is the prove that God exists, I am a believer.
All I want to do in my earlier post and this one is for you to challenge your beliefs about Christianity and take a logical, open minded and unbiased view of what is being practiced and preached.
Over so many thousand of years of translation, editing, interpretation of God’s original message, do you think that some of his original message did not come through?
Is it not possible that some Roman Churches or the Christian Kings inserted/manipulated some scriptures to suit their time and place and had nothing to do with God’s message?
Do you not owe it to yourself to really think about what was being said so many years ago and challenge it to see if it is still applicable today?
If you go back a maybe 50-60 years ago and suggest that there maybe life outside earth, you’d be labeled as a nutcase and be considered blasphemous. But just recently, the Vatican Church said it is ok to believe that there extraterrestrials outside earth and they should be treated as God’s creation as well.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080514/32357_Vatican:_It%5C's_OK_to_Believe_in_Aliens_.htm
Now doesn’t that show that Christianity is evolving?
If age old believes such as ET can be challenged, can we not challenge some of the arcane laws that serve us no good and should not be followed?
Don’t we owe it to ourselves as God’s creature with the biggest and most advanced brain to really consider whether we should follow the things some dead guys said two thousand years ago, true as they may be?
If we as humans over the past 100 years have broken so many laws of physics, science and mathematics that were once held to be the ultimate truth during their time, isn't also fair to consider the laws of religion?
In the end, just because you believe in God, does not mean you have to believe in any religion.
I think that the example you cited (on adultery) to highlight the continued relevance and non-evolution of biblical principles was poor. Your colleague's husband does not screw around on her not because the bible says not to do so - I would imagine he does not screw around on her because it is morally incorrect to do so. And one's moral compass may (or may not) change based on the moral and social climate of the times.
I am not a Christian so shall not debate the relevance or non-relevance of bible passages...er..yoking...with non-believers. To each his own, I say, and how good or decent a person is should not be referenced to what religion he or she practices or how fervently the religion is practiced.
People are bounded by their beliefs - whether it is religion based or not. One's beliefs makes it the "truth" in the eyes of the person.
One may think adultery is sinful etc. To the person, that is the truth.
To another person who think adultery is okay, then it is the truth to the particular person.
Really not much point arguing about beliefs - because ultimately we are who we are. No point really.
And your last response actually really can be considered "tah wak lei kong" (cantonese) - just because your friend mentioned that some of the rules need not be followed, it does not mean everything does it?
Eg. If I say, Quran should be followed and not the Bible, would you say that the Bible is the one that needs to be followed?
Probably yes.
Then can I conclude that everything in the Quran should not be followed? No right?
One thing that annoys non Christians is when the Christians preaches how to be an angel and chastise others when they themselves are far from perfect. Of course, then one would say - that is why we ask for forgiveness and that is why the son of god sacrificed himself for us.
Look, as for me, I have not met the son of god. I did not ask him to die for my sins. I know for a fact that I am sinful in many ways - lets not start :P. But I can live with that. I accepted the fact and notion that I am sinful. But no, I need not forgiveness. Let me burn in hell - if it exists. If that is the life of eternity for me - just because that I did not accept Christianity, then so be it. God is cruel. Hahahaha.
Hmmm.....I won't say being religious makes one holy. Just like I had this discussion many years ago "Will all non-Christians go to hell even they had done good deeds?" and "Will all Christians go to heaven even they have tortured, murdered, raped?".
Whatever it is, humans make errors, even in interpretations. All religions promote and instill good heart and "purity" :). Some just couldn't resist to take it to the extreme!
As for the r'ship, it's just too bad. I would add that it's a hypocrisy for not being open-minded and accept the good in an individual rather than basing on religions.
As such, I rather roam the world as a lost soul for being a freethinker (not atheist), accepting and learning the foundations/good teachings of all religions than being a hypocrite.
rabbit - not really la. just wanna strike back haha!
Klaw - that is correct. no one to be blamed really.
Leah - well said. but then again, we cant stop ppl from thinking that Christians are good. it's up to us to be humble.
Ivan - not too sure. but just like other religious guidance, it's often without reasons. but from my point of view, if you marry a non believer, there can be a lot of complications if you want to continue to be a Christian.
beetrice - i think Jesus broke all the old testament bondage already right?
Nicholas-Y - no doubt, Christians can be the worst hypocrites around. i am one too. but that doesnt mean you should shut yourself from the religion. the point is... one must separate the believers from the belief.
rashikaps - which religion? Christianity is often, a beginning.
Johnson Tee - guess we already talked about it. Kudos on the long comment. I have forwarded some of the stuff u asked to my pastor. hopefully he can share some light. once again, i just want to highlight one point... one must separate the believers from the belief.
cocka doodle - love no need to hide ler...
lynnwei - yeah, things like this can go on forever. sigh.
pavlova - well, i think those rules u mentioned are of the old testament and Jesus, by His death, has broken all the old testament rules. i think... :)
littlepolaris - yeah, we will always be tempted and will probably fall too. just have to fall back to God.
suituapui - Amen to that!
flaminglambo - well... on your question... i really dunno. but based on human interpretation... unfortunately... yes. but i guess it all depends on God.
ahjohn - i think it was mentioned that it is to prevent us from being pulled down. anyway, i am no guru here... and as always, you are :)
seaqueen - i just dont think she should blame the religion ler... that's all.
jemima - that must be words of great wisdom :)
Huei - hahaha... u can really link everything to this cunt-tree.. but yeah, i agree with u... totally.
Atheist - i beg to differ.
anon @ 29/3 11.35am - strange... i am talking to someone who is facing the exact same thing now.
constant craver joe - it's a matter of human principles vs human practices. isnt it?
willchua - well, all the more one should choose properly isnt it? which also covers religion.
Gracie - thank you for that explanation. :)
nikz - good point. i guess that is what the heart will seek when you're close with God.
eyletsmereadzewtsblog - morally incorrect? i think the society nowadays dont really account that much.
Maxforce - well, if a muslim say quran is to be followed, of cos i will say yes. but if a christian says that, of cos tak jalan ler. God is not cruel... He sure wants u to go to heaven wan. but... it's certainly a long debate.
whoalse - when good deeds are used as basis for eternity... Christianity sure fail :)... it's really a tough thing.
Hi zewt,
I guess for some circumstances there might be complications. But I doubt it will complicate a person to become a Christian. Sharing from experience, my dad is a Christian and my mum is a Buddhist. No problems there so long as we practice "to each his own" faithfully.
And nope, I'm neither. I'm a free-thinker.
dear johnson,
there is a reason why the yoking cannot be done. it is not because God doesn't want a married couple to love one another but in any married relationship, it involves 3 person.
It involves a man, a woman and God. If either the man or woman do not believe in God and His words, how will the relationship be truly harmonious? Someone must give way and it is either the believer or the non-believer.
Take for instance raising the children. Which belief system should they be raised? This alone is sufficient to give you at least 21 years of headaches. You must remember, the one you are marrying out of love today is the same person you will face each day until the end of your lives. If you have to live it by fighting over such issues, will love alone bring you through? Love is not just about emotion, it is a commitment and it is an outward act of selflessness towards each other.
A married couple deals not just with the physical, emotional and mental needs of each other but spiritual as well. If both are not in sync, do you think there will be harmony?
When we say love trancends all, it requires commitment. In a relationship where you involve God and a non-believer, you must ask yourself, can I really have both? One must give way not because God doesn't love you but rather there will be a time where there will be clashes.
When we talk about evolution, the bible doesn't change despite it being translated over and over again. Take for instance the Old Testament. Jesus himself said He came not to abolish it but to fulfill it. He is not denying we should not obey the laws of God but rather He is pointing out that the laws of God are pointers to let us know how deeply fallen we are as human beings. Did the Old Testament change? From Jesus time until now, I am sure it didn't as the Jews use the same text as we do and they of all people, are THE preserver of words. Even if the documents, if ever, could be lost, Jesus alone confirms it during His time. He never said, all these documents are lies! Throw it out! Burn it!
And for the New Testaments, even without the original documents, countless quotes by early Fathers right up to first and second century AD have quoted enough to reconstruct the new testament. We still have many documents of antiquity which don't run too far from the date it is first penned. In comparison, the same cannot be said of the Vedas and Buddhist texts. The closest we ever know of about Buddha was penned about 500 years after he died (I stand corrected as I read it quite some time back). Anyway, there are loads of internet sites one can go and search for it.
Anyway, keeping it will never make our relationship with God right. On the contrary, the harder we try, the more obvious the dim outlook it is to us.
Which is why, the question always come back to this. Why must God send His only Son to die if we can on our own fulfill all the requirements of God? Why sacrifice the Life for multitude as an atonement? If we can do it on our own, why must we ask Jesus to die instead?
So why we don't follow the 10 commandments? On the contrary, we can try but we will fail miserably. That is what God is trying to tell us. Live by His standards or go on the pathway of eternal separation.
In the end, without full restoration, we, the fallen beings, can only try our best to live our lives based on what God told us. And we live not because we want to be right with God, that has been taken care of by Jesus. We live because we love Jesus so much in return for His first love to us.
If God intend good for us, He never said it involves zero sacrifices. He paid for making our relationship right by sending His Son to death for us. Do we then love our non-believing other half so much so we choose to sacrifice God?
I guess it's always ideal that both husband and wife shares the same believe. But if they do not, respect should come into practice -that is, for both to respect each other's believe and honor it.
Wow... heated debate here...
Christians certainly have ditched many rules stated in Bible. Do you go to church on Saturday or Sunday?
I have to say your writings lately make me ponder a lot. I love the last sentence - the convenient truth. Nice stuff for the weekend :)
unfortunately so. but its insensitive to say religious books are outdated. its a matter of being able to accept it or not.
Ivan - good to hear that. i mean, there is no right and wrong, at least from the world's perspective. of cos, as a Christian, i will encourage that one should only go with another C.
myop101 - you and johnson should hook up and debate from there. hehe...
purple mushroom - yeah, and the world isnt ideal... unfortunately.
khengsiong - i go on sunday. yeah, i get the saturday bit... :)
twisted heels - my pleasure... :)
pamina - absolutely...
Zewt; I believe the 'unbelievers
mentioned in the bible referred to beliefs of THAT time. Like shamanism, animism, ... the people committed cannibalism, incense, and barbaric acts of worship. Jesus was speaking against those kinds of evil.
But the various world religions today are not like those. The teachings of Siddharta Gautama and the Bhagavad Gita tells the believer how to be good and lead a noble life. It is not a matter of "me" or "them". In fact, Buddhism is about helping every person make the best out of his or her own religion.
I thinkwe need tostudy and look at the Bible as a historically rich gem.
I always say my God is a wise God who make laws with good reason. Surely, there is a higher explanation for the word "unbeliever" than that that pits us against each other.
atheism and religion are the same in a way..they both treat lack of knowledge as if it were, in and of itself, final knowledge.
yvonne foong - from what i was told... going with a non believer might 'pull' a believer down... kinda like to avoid that i guess.
anon @ 11/6 1.25am - i must say that is quite chim...
I just visited your blog and thoroughly enjoy your insights. Then I came across this heated post, can't resist to comment.
I'm a believer but I share the same insights as Johnson.
The Bible is made of many books and also originated from many different languages. some questions i still ponders today.
Fors instance, how does the Bible comes about. The earliest Bible recorded was about 200 years after Christ died. What does the Christians refer to at that time ?
Then, if i am not mistaken, the bible is a compilation of favorite books used then by scholars. It does not comprises of everything written. Some authority has selected them and publish them into a book, and voila, the Bible. But who gave the them the right to do that ? God ? It's like taking MPH top ten self help book and compile it into a book. Some of the text which the authority thinks as heretic were thrown away.
Bible evolves but the belief does not. The belief in Jesus stoods the test of time is enough proof. Irregardless on how many denominations, how we worship Him, the fundamentals still persist.
My take is one should not read the Bible literally but should spend more time thinking from their context when it was written ages ago. Ask why did they want to have this rule.
There are some debatable issues today.
For instance, Christian should not drink. Well, if churches allow drinking, then we have hangover believers in Church right. It is hard to teach self control to the mass so the authority just out right ban drinking.
And this issue about holding incense at Funeral of a non-believer. Its common thing that Christians will not hold incense. Why ? I believe we should as it's a form of showing respect to the decease. Would it anger God? or would it make a fellow believer doubt his faith. I doubt so. God knows your heart. And if the faith of the fellow believer shakes, he is just not strong and will shaken any other way.
Lastly. I think one should think broadly and as a whole. One should not discard the Bible nor should he follows it literally. God has given us a brain. Use it and think of your actions before you follow some rules. Rules and laws are enacted by the authorities to control the mass, and often than not it is to their benefit.
Ah Siang - hello there. welcome to AZAIG. i guess you're the liberal Christian, i am one too, perhaps different % hehe. but seriously, i think as a Christian, i dont think we should question the authenticity of the bible. cos if you do, then faith is no longer there and if faith is no longer there, the very substance of religion is no longer in existent. it then becomes a teaching, no longer a religion.
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